Getting Comfortable with Using Your Voice with Sally Zimney

Jillian

Welcome back to the mindset of podcasting. I'm so glad you're here this week because we are talking about public speaking and the importance of using our voice. My guest today knows all about public speaking and how to create your signature story and feel more confident in using your voice. So Sally Z is an award winning speaker and speaker coach whose mission is to create talks that move their audiences and the world. After 20 plus years of honing her craft, starting with speaking to teenagers, sally coaches bighearted entrepreneurs and changemakers to step on stage and speak their story in a way that moves audiences with authenticity, clarity, and courage. Sally has spoken in front of thousands of people, coached hundreds of speakers, and witnessed countless moving moments in that powerful connection between speaker and audience. Sally is also the host of this movement, a new and noteworthy Apple podcast about the art of public speaking, sharing insight and inspiration so that our talks can move the world from the boardroom to the biggest upstages. Sally believes that when we share our authentic voice and story, big things can happen. Listen to this episode if you have been nervous about using your voice to speak out. Hi, Sally, how are you today?

Sally

I'm so great. I'm really happy to be here.

Jillian

Yes, thank you so much.

Sally

With your people. Yes, of course.

Jillian

Yes. So let's start with introducing yourself and tell me who you are and what do you bring to this world?

Sally

Oh, my gosh. What do you bring to this world? I love that question. Well, hello. Yes, my name is Sally Z. I go by Sally Z online because my actual last name is Zimmey and nobody can really hear that. It sounds like Zimmy or Zimming or whatever. So at some point it just got shortened to Z and I kind of love it, so we go with it. And I am a speaker and a speaker coach, so I empower entrepreneurs and change makers leaders to help them step out front and speak their story in a way that moves audiences. So when I say out front, I really mean whether you're in front of a microphone doing a podcast, or you're in front of ten people in a conference room, or you're in front of the TEDx stage, or you're in front of a conference full of people looking at you as you deliver a keynote. So the whole range, Sally, helping people share their stories and their messages with more confidence and clarity and authenticity, which really is the key.

Jillian

Yes. And why is it so important for us to use our voices and put ourselves out there?

Sally

Well, I personally believe that when we can show up with authenticity, when we can in a way not do it like other people, but do it in a way that really feels like us, it can absolutely catapult you into authority. It can help you have a much greater impact. I mean. The difference between somebody who is just following the playbook of this is how I'm supposed to speak. This is how I'm supposed to present. This is how everybody else does it. And the person who. You know. Feels really confident in their own skin. Who is focused not on being perfect. But focused on really connecting with their audience. They're going to be able to show up and make good on this purpose. This thing that drives us out front in the first place. So there's historical moments of when somebody's words changed the way we all think and believe and behave. And I don't take it lightly. It's already an intimidating kind of world for people. So I tend to not over emphasize like you can change somebody's life. Like, this can be life altering for people because there's enough pressure on us. But I think it's true. I think we really can have and create big change when we can step up front and be ourselves.

Jillian

And there's more of that connection when you hear somebody's voice than just reading what they wrote.

Sally

It's true. There's something really special about speaking words, and we feel that different. So, like Jillian, if you think about, you can write a blog post and post it and people might share it. It might have an impact on people. But Sally, the message becomes three dimensional in a real way when you're hearing it in somebody's voice, when you're watching it live in their body, when you see somebody feel nervous as they're sharing something or get emotional, it lives in us differently and it affects our audience differently. So I'm super biased, but it's my favorite form of communication. Mine too, right?

Jillian

Yes. And I know it can be scary. I know people hear the word public speaking and they run the other way. So what steps can we take to get comfortable with actually speaking in front of people?

Sally

Yeah. So let me tell you about just an experience that happened last week. I was doing a workshop for a company. I do a lot of workshops around, really, how to persuade your audience, really how to structure messages that help persuade people. And so I was working with a group of what they called emerging leaders. So these are really young professionals who they see potential in. And they brought me in to do this workshop. And in the first few minutes, I always ask everybody, so where are you on the spectrum of loving or hating public speaking? And even knowing they're in a workshop about public speaking, and they're talking to somebody who loves it. There's always a handful of people, right, who are just like, I hate it. It's me. No. And I'm so grateful that they admit to it in the moment, because that's a brave thing to do, given the context. And so there last Wednesday, there I was, and I asked, and there was a handful of people, and this one man in the back, he was just like, Hate it, hate it. I hate that we're doing this. I hate that I'm here. I'm sure you're a lovely person, but I would rather be anywhere else in.

Jillian

The world right now.

Sally

And I was like, all right, well, thank you for being here. And my goal is to help you just hate it a little bit less because you feel like the risk could be worth it, because it's a risk for all of us. It really is. So we spend the morning together, and I'm really talking with them about lowering the bar for ourselves. It does not have to be perfect. We do not have to show up all buttoned up. If we mess up, if we use filler words, if we lose our way for a moment and lose track of our content, it doesn't mean that you can't have an impactful message. And I would argue, actually, as I did in this workshop, that in some ways, your imperfection makes you easier to connect with, because we tend to put speakers or people up front on this pedestal, like, well, they can do it, and they're a different kind of person. I can't do that, right? So I was like, Maybe it's more accessible than you think, right? So I'm just inviting people into this. We talk about some different frameworks, and at the end of the workshop, we do what I call a two minute talk, and I intentionally make it two minutes. We only spend five minutes preparing it. We're just kind of practicing some of these strategies. And one of the people who offered to share their two minutes to talk was my cynic, the guy in the back who was like, no way. Not me. Not me. And so what changed your mind about this? Why did you decide to give this a go? And he said, I am scared of the risk. And this felt like a safe place for me to take a risk. Now I feel so grateful that it felt like a safe place to take a risk. So really, the question is, how can we create the scenario that feels safe enough for us to take some more risks? And one of the things that I'm constantly telling people is that everybody gets nervous. It feels risky for everybody when you're about to do something that matters, that you care about, that could potentially have an impact. And so the fact that it's scary shouldn't keep you from taking the risk because everybody feels scared. Some people are just better at pretending or turning their fear into excitement, which is ultimately what it ends up being. For those of us who've been doing this a long time. We feel afraid, but we just kind of shifted into excitement faster because we trust ourselves. So you really have to do it anyway. That's ultimately what I'm trying to say, Jillian, is, yes, you're scared. You're convinced that you can't do it. Yes, you think everybody else does it better than you, but the reality is, if you try, if you take the risk, if you put yourself out there, there are payoff. It is worth it. Even if you messed up, even if it doesn't go the way that you want it to go. And the only way to figure it out is to try, which is probably not what a few people want to hear, but that's the truth. Yes.

Jillian

I always say my first guest interview on a podcast was horrible. I thought it was so bad. But once you get over that first time, you're like, oh, I did it. Okay. I survived, even though it didn't go so well.

Sally

Oh, my gosh, Jillian, that's exactly it. Because once you do it, you're like, oh, I've survived. I did it. There's evidence. I can point to evidence now that I actually can do it. And so the first time is the hardest, and just raising your hand and trying is the hardest, and it probably wasn't your best interview. Everybody has to have their first, and then they get through it.

Jillian

Yes. And then you just keep getting better from there. The more you do it, the easier it gets.

Sally

And everybody truly can do this. And I spent the first 15 years of my professional career speaking to teenagers, and that's a tough audience, right? They're going to let me know if what I'm doing isn't great or they don't believe me. You really have to show up authentically because their BS meter is pretty high. Which is great. Which is great. It was a great learning arena for me. And one of my coworkers who I was coaching was so good with kids and young people and teenagers. But he was not a polished presenter or speaker. He was a classroom teacher who we somehow convinced to come to these big speaking things for 100 and 5200 9th graders. And he worked really, really hard to get better. And I watched him over the course of the year. He would speak. I would give him some feedback. The next day, he tried something else, and little by little by little, he got to be an excellent speaker. So I think about him a lot, because truly, this is a learned thing. Some people show up in the moment with slightly more gifts or self confidence, but you can build into that. You can truly get better if you focus on it and you have a good guide?

Jillian

Yes, definitely. I want to pause this episode for a moment to tell you all about the program I took to become a podcast manager. If you have been thinking about starting a podcast management business, then the Podcast Manager program from Lauren Wrighton will guide you through every step and give you the confidence to manage other people's podcasts. You can check out more details at theminesetopodcasting. Comsponsors. Lauren is amazing and shows everything from setting up a podcast to how to price your packages. Plus when you join our program, you get weekly group coaching, Sally and a private Facebook group so you can always get all of your questions answered. If you're ready to start your podcast management business, then head to the mindset ofpodcasting comsponsors. So I know that as business owners we always have that one topic that we could speak on forever. Give all the tips the knowledge about but you talk about the importance of having a story, especially a signature story. Can you talk more about that and why that's important?

Sally

Absolutely. Stories are so powerful. They are like the persuasive magical gift in your back pocket that you can pull out to connect with people. And we all have lots of stories in our lives, even if we think our lives are boring. And we like little old me over here in Minnesota who cares about my story or what I thought today or what I experienced today. But really the story is in service of a message and it is the fastest way for your audience to connect with you. So I mentioned I worked with teenagers. Well, I remember when I first started speaking to them, standing up in front and trying to deliver this beautiful script. I thought it was beautiful. I was like, Dang, these lines are powerful and I'm really giving them like nuggets of wisdom. And they didn't care about the message until I told the story. And I remember feeling this disengaged, I'm like, I'm losing them. They're chatting with each other. Super disengaged. And I made a decision in split second decision to just bypass the next three minutes of me talking at them with these beautiful scripts that they didn't care about and fast forwarded to the story. And as soon as I started telling the story, their little heads popped up. They started stop talking to their neighborhood, pulled in and engaged. And then after I had their engagement, after they got a sense that I, through the story, understood what they were going through, that they were emotively, opened up to it, then I could deliver some of those key messages and oneliners and then the message could stick. So it was this big AHA moment of not just how stories are powerful, they are the most important persuasive engagement tool that we have and if we use it in the right way, it makes our messages more impactful. And without it we're just working it's an uphill battle and so yeah, Jillian, you're right. As business owners, we have tons of stories that we typically are not really using in order to connect with our audience, in order to pull them, in order to get them to care about our expertise, our ideas, all of the reasons we're like, I have so much to tell you and share with you. It's like, I don't care. Why should I care? The story helps them figure out why to care. And we have to have that first.

Jillian

Yes, you have to have that connection because anybody could tell them all the tips and tools, but they have to fill that connection with you to actually listen.

Sally

Yeah, it's an information world right now. The information is already out there. Your story is what makes it meaningful and what makes it different from somebody else's expertise.

Jillian

So if we don't think we have a story, how do we dig a little deeper into finding that?

Sally

That's such a good question. It takes some self reflection and thinking back to the key moments in your business or your life. So I like to say that any strong beliefs that you have about your business or even about your idea, what's underneath that is likely a story. Like, my belief that stories are persuasive was based on a moment when I saw that stories were persuasive. And that moment is a story. It's very meta, seven layers of metal. But the same thing is true for all of us from a broad scale. Like, what are those key stories that you tell? What are the key beliefs that you have that you really want to pass on to other people? They are likely based on an AHA moment or a story from your own life. So you could go one by one and say, okay, I have this strong belief. Why do I have that belief? What was the moment that that belief was born? Those are really powerful stories for our business, the kind of the origin stories. Right? So your idea originated somewhere. There's a story there, right? So those are origin stories you can tap into. I also love what I call the everyday stories. So those stories are the things that move you in the everyday. So if you are moved, emotively about something, pay attention. Why? What moved you about that? There is a framework that I use with my speakers, and it's MMM moment meaning and move. So when you are out in the world and something moves you, you notice something. You see an exchange at the grocery store or you see a tick tock that just like, lights you up for some reason. That is a moment. You could share that moment. That's the first M. The second M, though, is the really important part. And that is the meaning. You can take that moment. And now your job as the speaker, and I'll use that term really loosely here, because whatever way you are speaking, your job is to translate that moment for your audience. So one of the things that tends to hold people back from telling stories is they're like, who cares about me? It's not really about you. It's about your audience and what they could get from this moment. So you create the meaning for your audience and then the third M is move. What do you want them to do with this moment and meaning that you have just offered up to them? So, moment, meaning and move. And if you use that framework, it's actually a really powerful way to make sure that you're leveraging the persuasive power of stories and it helps you with the structure of how do I show up and talk to my audience? Sally the time. So there's a little nugget for you.

Jillian

Thank you.

Sally

Yes, I'm going to remember that because.

Jillian

We all have things that happen to us all day long, you can always find meaning in something to help your audience.

Sally

I love that the everyday stories are around us all the time and super powerful and a little easier to access then sometimes the origin stories can feel really big. Like, I don't know what the story is in my business. What did you notice today? There's a story there. Yes.

Jillian

That's such great advice. Thank you so much for being on today. I think you've making us all feel a little more comfortable with finally using our voice and getting it out there so we can impact more people. Can we let the listeners know how they can connect with you and work with you?

Sally

Absolutely. You can find me on all the interwebs. I'm most active on Instagram, so you can find me there at Sally be Moved. And if you want to dive a little more deeply into that simple story framework, the MMM, you can grab that@bemoved.com or simplestory framework.

Jillian

I will make sure all that is in the show notes. Thank you so much again and enjoy your day.

Sally

Yeah, thanks for having me on, Jillian. This is really fun. Wow.

Jillian

Did Sally really drop some nuggets of information for us to get over our fear of using our voices? Our voices can be so powerful and I think that especially as women, we need to speak out more about what we believe in, about what we want to teach the world and other people. And using your voice can definitely help that, whether it's on a podcast, on a stage, on your Insta stories, whatever you feel like starting, start there and just start sharing your story. Like she said, it could be something from everyday life. Just share who you are, what you believe in, and people are going to connect with you because those stories are so important. So I'm so glad I had Sally on today. She's just helped me know that I need to share my story more to connect with more people and yeah, such a great conversation. I hope you took some amazing things away from this and let me know what you took away from this, especially those three M. I'm definitely going to be using that every day when I am crafting some stories. So hop on over to Instagram and Jillian Grover Podcast Solutions and let me know what your takeaways were from this episode. So your podcast tip of the week. So how can you use affiliate links in your podcast? Because if you got affiliate links, you shouldn't be talking about them so that you can get people to click the link and hopefully you get a commission from when they buy something. So you can have an affiliate link for just about anything. Amazon, other people's, courses, systems that you use in your business. If you are using systems in your business, most of them have an affiliate link. Go sign up for it. So this is how I use affiliate links in my podcast. I create an ad for them. Like, I script a whole ad out, why I like using the system, how it helps me and my business, and then I put the link for my affiliate in the show notes. I put some music behind this ad and throw it into the middle of my podcast episode. If you don't want to create separate ads, you can just talk about it in your podcast episode. Make it your call to action for that episode. Another thing you can do if it aligns with your listeners and the topic that you're talking about is do a whole episode about the affiliate link that you have. There's somebody else's course that will benefit your listeners. Talk about the course, how it helped you, why you love the course, if there's a system that will help them, talk about why you use that system and how it will help your listeners, just make sure it's aligned with your podcast and your listeners. But yeah, don't just let those affiliate links sit there. Use them in your podcast, put them in your show notes, talk about them a lot so that you can get people to sign up and you can get a small commission from them doing that. So, an update in my business, I don't really have one. I did plan my Q four out and I'm really taking it a lot slower. I'm working on streamlining my back end. I use Upsoutto, which I absolutely love, and I'm going to be streamlining that, making that a lot nicer. And yeah, that's like my goal. That's it. My other goal is to just slow down these next three months. Slow down, enjoy the holidays. We've had a few stressful weeks of moving and downgrading and getting everything all set. I am ready to just relax a little more, cozy up on the couch with a good book. That's like my favorite thing to do, especially in the cold weather. We still have baseball going on right now, so I'm still sitting out in the cold for 2 hours every single night and sometimes four. There's a game definitely on the weekends. Yeah, that's all I've been doing, taking it a little bit slower. And I think that that's how our businesses go. We have slow seasons and then we have busier seasons just depending on what we are doing. And right now I want a slower season and that's what I'm going to be doing. And I know after the new year my season will probably get a little bit busier because that's when a lot of people want to start podcasts. So I'm going to enjoy this time right now and just slow down a little. So let me know if you are slowing down or how you're slowing down in your business. You can email me at jillian@gilliangrover.com or head over to Instagram. It's Jilliangrover podcast solutions. I will talk to you next week.